Scale Soaring UK

Hi,
I'm after one or maybe two scale acro gliders for slope use. My main requirement is for them to acro nicely, clean 8 point rolls, square loops, bunts etc. etc.
I already have a 4m Fox which although it flies very well, is too heavy for me to launch myself, so doesn't get as many outings as I'd like.

I'm therefore thinking along the lines of a 3.2m Swift (don't really want a second Fox). Also possibly a 4m DG303 Acro.

I've found (with some help - thanks Andy) the following and would be grateful if anyone can comment on how well they acro or any other comments on the kits (quality etc.)

Krause Swift 3.25m http://www.krause-modellbautechnik.de/k ... 1_325.html
Topmodel Swift 3.14m http://www.topmodelcz.cz/index.php?&act ... il&id=2743
Geitner Swift 3.2, http://www.flugmodellbau-geitner.com/swift-s-1/

and

Airworld DG303 3.75/4.25m http://www.airworld.de/Englisch/Segelfl ... /index.htm
Krause DG300 3.75m http://www.krause-modellbautechnik.de/k ... _elan.html
Reichard DG300 Acro http://www.reichard.cz/en/models/gliders/dg-300-elan/
Reichard Lunak http://www.reichard.cz/en/models/gliders/lunak/

or if anyone has any other suggestions for similar models (at simliar prices) that would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Jerry

Chris Jesshope wrote: you missed the airworld Blanik L13 http://www.airworld.de/Englisch/Segelfl ... /index.htm I have one and it flies very well. very managable to self launch, even in a blow and performs acro moves very nicely. When set up neutrally its rolls are very axial and it has good sized elevators that allow you to square up your loops nicely. Roll rate is very good
Chris

Thanks Chris, that's exactly the sort of suggestion and information I'm after. I'll add it to my list.
Jerry

Chris Strong wrote:Yes, also the Valenta L213 at 4.6mtrs is worth considering, Chris

Thanks for the suggestion, although looking at http://www.valentamodel.cz/index-aj.htm I think the 9.6kg flying weight is going to leave me in the same position as my Fox (also around 9kg), which I can just about launch on my own, but only if the air is smooth. Much as I'd like 4.6m...
Jerry

Have you considered the Valenta H101 Salto? It is 4.5 m and flies at 5 to 6kgs. Superb aerobatic performer like the full size. There are a couple that fly on our Hill. Regards John.

You have a hill ????

BC

Hi Jerry,
have you considered the bungee launch. Many posts are available on YouTube to see the concept.There is also a build process on this forum,
The bungee can be operated single handed. If you do go down this road there are a great deal more models open to you including your Fox.
Regards Terry

Here is a link to the catapult launch on this forum.

http://www.scalesoaring.co.uk/VINTAGE/H ... apult.html

Alistair

Thanks for the positive comments about the Salto. I saw one flying locally last week and it did appear to go very well, so it is certainly worth of consideration. I'm guessing the 4.2m version (without winglets) would be better for acro. In fact I'd say it is 'almost' ideal. It's a nice size, good weght, acros well. What's not to like - well I have a slight (personal) preference for an X tail, so if there is something with similar characteristics to the Salto but with an X tail that's probably what I'm after. If not, then I don't dislike the look of the Salto so that may well be the answer. I can probably get my hands on one to try it out.

As for bungee / catapult, I'm afraid that's a no go on our slopes (public on two and lifestock on another), expressly forbidden. Nice idea though.

Jerry

[youtube][/youtube]


Valenta 213 2.75m 5kg, you can do this with it, it will do whatever you can do, it's my goto mid size aero scalie.

Try embedding

jimbo wrote:Valenta 213 2.75m 5kg, you can do this with it, it will do whatever you can do, it's my goto mid size aero scalie.

I like the way that goes could be an alternative to the Swift.
Jerry

I was flying it in 25-30 knts today, was going like a train, I have also flown in 15knts, and it flew fine. If you get one, get flaps as the pop up airbrakes arent particularly nice to use (i only have airbrakes).

I would post a pic but this forum forces me to shrink the picture to 20pixels by 20 due to silly size contraints (guys you need to up the max file size nothing taken with a modern camera is allowed, too large).

20x20 seems to be very odd Jimbo as I can resize a photo from a modern camera to something like 800 x800 or so & it works fine.

Jerry i have got a Top model Swift and a Valenta Salto and whilst i like them both very much i wouldn't contemplate doing square loops with the Swift with its foam wings whereas i think the Salto is pretty much indestructible in the air.
I've got a Purbeck 4.7m Fox which has fantastic slope presence but you do need a good launcher (we are toying with Terrys idea of bungee but we're a bit nervous!)

Simon

Just a thought about bungys, would you have two stakes and a bungy rubber along the slope ? and the glider hook in the middle
Pull back to form a triangle till stretched then let er go.
Or any other suggestions ?

jimbo wrote:'................I would post a pic but this forum forces me to shrink the picture to 20pixels by 20 due to silly size contraints (guys you need to up the max file size nothing taken with a modern camera is allowed, too large).

The forum does not have any restriction on physical image dimensions - no matter what size the submitted image is the forum software is set to automatically reduce it to a max. of 1350 x 900px - whichever is the larger.

There is a file size restriction of 400Kb per image and that is to conserve server space.

I think you are confusing the maximum thumbnail size of 20 x 20 pixels here and that is also done automatically by the forum software.

Simon WS wrote: i have got a Top model Swift Simon

Thanks Simon, which Swift do you have? 3.14m or 3.73m? How do you find it goes? Nice axial rolls, holds momentum etc? Any problems or vices? Decent quality?
I've done square loops with my 4M Fox with foam wings, maybe I shouldn't call them square, the corners are sensibly rounded. I'm also curious how well it stays up when the lift isn't so great, which I suspect the 3.74m should be slightly better, but probably also less sensible for doing anything too aggressive with. Curious to know how much I'll be able to use one, if it is a 15mph (on our slopes which aren't great) model, or if it will still be usable on slightly less windy days.
Also which Salto? Carbon, D-box or glass?

Geoff Pearce wrote: would you have two stakes and a bungy rubber along the slope ?

For us anything on the ground is a no go. Either risk of sheep etc., eating it (so they say) or public tripping over it. Also these days the grass is anything but smooth, not sure I'd want to risk hitting a tussock with nose or a wingtip with a load of tension still in the bunjee.

jimbo wrote: get flaps as the pop up airbrakes aren't particularly nice to use

Thanks for the tip, I didn't know there was a choice. Makes sense.

Thanks,
Jerry

Hi jerry, I also have a 4m s2g fox. Is this the one you have? I love the fox but if you want some something more aerobatic, responsive, you need to reduce the span which the l213 does 2,8m or so. Tbh the fox and the l213 excel in similar wind strengths. I doubt a salto of a similar span would be much different to your fox. The larger models have more presence but the shorter span have presence but are better to chuck about.

Have you considered the free plan on this site for the Inteco L-213 which performs well
http://www.scalesoaring.co.uk/VINTAGE/D ... Plans.html

jimbo wrote:Hi jerry, I also have a 4m s2g fox. Is this the one you have?

How did you guess that - I guess there aren't that many foam winged 4m Fox! I do also have a VoltiJ which I use for the more aerobatic flying, but the Fox as you say has the presence. I'm looking for something between them really, which I can launch myself, but still has the presence which is why I was thinking along the lines of a 3.1m Swift - which I suspect would be flown in similar conditions to the Fox - just I can launch it myself. The L213 is a tad smaller, but would still work.
I think the Valenta Salto should go in lighter conditions - certainly I saw one flying last week on a day I wouldn't consider taking the Fox. Certainly according to Phil at http://www.glidermania.co.uk/products/salto.html

does offer excellent all round performance be it slope, thermal, speed or aerobatics.

VinceC wrote:Have you considered the free plan on this site for the Inteco L-213

That's not me I'm afraid. The only model I've built is my ex Phase6 (I enjoyed that until someone flew into me while I was flying it - distracted me enough to loose it).
Even my ex Rippin 2.2m Fox http://www.rc-tronics-topp-rippin.de/Sh ... 934k5c1e70 was a challenge for me to build - again, flew great - never did work out what happened to that, lost elevator control. The wheel on that now lives on in the 4m Fox! I didn't realise they were still available until I just checked - hmmm.. not quite what I was after, but...
Jerry

It depends on the wing section generally. Some better in lighter some in stronger. My 2,9m lunak has thermally section and goes better than the l213 in light air. Prolly my favourite scalie, a joy to fly, and a real looker. No one makes a kit in 3m size, this is a scratch built.

I've had two Valenta Saltos - the first was full carbon which i sold to a friend and wished i hadn't! The second is d box and still seems seriously strong - i think either would hold up to anything you could throw at them in the air.
My Swift is the 3.7m version and TBH i mostly bought it for sentimental reasons as it belonged to a friend who died but it is a lovely model any way with excellent fit and finish - but it's not fully moulded and imho is not in the same league as the Salto.

Lots to choose from!

Simon

Simon WS wrote:Lots to choose from!

Indeed. I think my current favourites are the Valenta Salto (not the X tail I was initially after, but otherwise fits the bill nicely) and the TopModel Swift - not sure which one, probably the 3.14. Better stock up before we have to pay import duty on these models!
Thanks to all for the thoughts and suggestions.
Jerry

Both nice gliders for the slope...

Simon