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Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.**

Posted: 22 Dec 2020, 07:47
by Max Wright
This is the subject. It formed part of the South Australian Scouts Association Air Division.

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This is my research sheet and Cliff's book.

Spread sheet - research..JPG

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T-61A 1.JPG (11.16 KiB) Viewed 4151 times

Here is my new steel build table (Zincalume on 16 mm MDF).

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And my magnetic building devices.

T-61A 3.JPG

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I found that when I unpacked it, the two Ribs 1 had been inadvertently left out. Cliff (Evans), tried to post me replacements but they fell victim to the COVID lurgy and disappeared into the ether. So I made two more from copying the others. Good practice. 8-) Thanks for trying, Cliff. ;)

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To get my head around the different angles of the wings, I tried a new strategy. I assembled fuselage frames 3,4 and 5 and installed the Rib sisters to those frames.

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[attachment=0]T-61A 8.JPG[/attachment

This gave me a jig to set up my wing spars.

More to follow . . .

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 22 Dec 2020, 08:04
by Max Wright
T-61A 9.JPG


Here the two spars are being built.

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And now the Graupner boxes are being epoxied in place.

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Now I can build each wing around its spar and hopefully they will sit correctly.

Fingers crossed . . .

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 22 Dec 2020, 08:22
by Max Wright
OK On we go . . .

T61-A 15.JPG


I will live to regret glueing those rib sisters in place, but . . .

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When I checked Rib 1 with the plan, it was 5 mm too long. Remember their sisters?

So, I fixed the spar and the trailing edge on the plan and ignored the overhang.

I laminated some 3 mm balsa and set about adding the front sections of the ribs.

I made a device for sitting each rib on the table and measuring where to cut 9 mm off its nose.

It all worked out well.


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Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 22 Dec 2020, 08:34
by Max Wright
Still more . . .

For a bit of a diversion, I installed the first of the wing joiner anchors.

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Then I found that the balsa wing tip rib was very flimsy and easily damaged (how did I find this out?), :oops:

So I cut sisters out of 3 mm ply and added them.

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Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 22 Dec 2020, 08:49
by Max Wright
We're in the home stretch . . .

Keeping the spar and trailing edge firmly locked on to the plan, I then cut the ribs and glued them in place.

T-61A 27.JPG


. . . and continued to assemble the other woody bits to the device.

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You can see that I've remembered the crank. The washout has also been incorporated on the tip end. ;)


T-61A 30.JPG

Also the wing joiner anchor and the anti-rotation pin are now in place.

Tomorrow, the remaining woody bits go on the top and the whole catastrophe will be turned over and wooded. :ugeek:

Then, it's on to the aileron.

Woo Hoo!

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 22 Dec 2020, 09:21
by Peter Balcombe
Well done Max. Its looking good :)

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 22 Dec 2020, 09:24
by Max Wright
Thanks, Peter. 8-)

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 23 Dec 2020, 08:12
by Max Wright
I have to deal with another diversion. :?

Remember that I made a jig out of fuselage frames 3,4 and 5?

Well, I've discovered that frame 4 is 4 mm narrower than it should be.
T-61A 31.JPG

No biggie - I made a doubler out of 3 mm balsa and glued it on to the sister.

T-61A 32.JPG

Then I used my 1.1 metre sanding bar to fair it in.

I'll do the other side later.

Cheers

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 27 Dec 2020, 05:00
by Max Wright
I think that I've got the wing worked out . . .

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I might leave it there and get the left one to this stage before I move forward (also while I can still remember what I did). :lol:

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 27 Dec 2020, 08:50
by B Sharp
That's coming along nicely Max. There is no need to forget your progress, just use your photos from this build thread.
Brian. :)

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 27 Dec 2020, 08:53
by Max Wright
There is only the right wing plan in the kit, so I took mine to Officeworks and had them scan and flip the page with the wing on it.

Placed against the original, there is only a millimetre in it.

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Some of the guys on RCSB are reporting plan sets with both wings drawn and the wings being 15 mm different lengths!

I couldn't be happier with the result. 8-)

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 27 Dec 2020, 08:56
by Max Wright
B Sharp wrote: 27 Dec 2020, 08:50 That's coming along nicely Max. There is no need to forget your progress, just use your photos from this build thread.
Brian. :)
Ha ha! Thanks, Brian. :lol:

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 27 Dec 2020, 13:28
by Trevor
Great to see this coming on well Max, especially after all the angst at the start!

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 27 Dec 2020, 20:28
by Max Wright
Thanks, Trevor.

I have your site on speed dial. 8-)

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 31 Dec 2020, 12:17
by Bovin
It looks very well :). And a very nice building table!

Vincent.

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 31 Dec 2020, 19:41
by Max Wright
Thanks, Vincent. 8-)

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 03 Jan 2021, 06:52
by Max Wright
The left wing is coming along.

The second one is easier - not so much thinking time involved.

T-61A 44.JPG
T-61A 45.JPG

Cheers

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 03 Jan 2021, 09:11
by Trevor
Max Wright wrote: 03 Jan 2021, 06:52
The second one is easier - not so much thinking time involved.
Beware! The chances of going wrong are also much higher on the second one - for the same reason!

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 03 Jan 2021, 17:04
by Barry_Cole
Trevor wrote: 03 Jan 2021, 09:11
Max Wright wrote: 03 Jan 2021, 06:52
The second one is easier - not so much thinking time involved.
Beware! The chances of going wrong are also much higher on the second one - for the same reason!
Yes, been there, done that.....

:( :( :( :(

BC

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 11 Jan 2021, 07:17
by Max Wright
OK. I've assembled the second wing to the point where I can attach it to the bit of the fuselage that I have built up.

T61-A 46.JPG
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I figured that I should see if there are any issues which need my attention while I can still make adjustments.

It all fits pretty well, except for where the back of the right wing meets the fuselage rib. There is a bit of a gap, but I can glue on some more balsa and sand it back until it's fair. A simple job.

I went back and had a look at the photo shoot I did on the prototype and I must say - it all looks pretty good.

The sweep of the wings and the dihedral look very convincing - as do the cranks.

Now I can complete the covering, ailerons and spoilers and make the wing bags for protection. :?

Cheers

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 11 Jan 2021, 08:49
by Trevor
It's shaping up very nicely now Max. Now that you mention it, I seem to remember a fair bit of shimming and sanding to get those huge wing roots to sit well against the fuselage.

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 11 Jan 2021, 09:53
by Max Wright
Thanks, Trevor.

That makes me feel a lot better. 8-)

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 11 Jan 2021, 09:54
by Cliff Evans
Coming together well now.
Well don Max

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 11 Jan 2021, 09:58
by Max Wright
Thanks, Cliff. 8-)

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 17 Jan 2021, 07:19
by Max Wright
Today, Sunday 7th January was spent laminating the spoilers.

The plans say two layers of 3.0 mm balsa, but the balsa I have is very soft. I've laid up two layers of 2.5 mm balsa with a 0.4 mm ply layer each side.

T-61A 49.JPG

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The control horns are piano wire bent into a loop at the ends . . .

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The eyes are filled with "Knead it" epoxy filler, which will be drilled to accept the clevis'.

T-61A 53.JPG

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 25 Jan 2021, 06:53
by Max Wright
OK Two days in the studio and it's hard to see where the time has been spent.

There has been a lot of sanding and filing, and I missed the cladding at the root of the left wing. :oops:

And I've installed the spoilers.

T-61A 54.JPG
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T-61A 56.JPG

I've run the calipers over the two wings and the measurements all stack up - except that the left wing is 1.00 mm longer than the right one.

I'll call that "close enough."

Now to clad the bottom and finally get started on the ailerons.

Cheers

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 25 Jan 2021, 06:55
by Max Wright
OOoer! It pays to take photos.

The braces in the left wing are back to front. :oops:

How embarrasment!

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 25 Jan 2021, 09:06
by Peter Balcombe
Don’t worry Max, you’ve joined the builders club :lol: :lol:
At least you haven’t built 2 identical wings :o

It’s looking good & is all coming together much easier than you initially thought I’m sure. :)

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 25 Jan 2021, 12:27
by Max Wright
Thanks, Peter.

Even with my OCD, I can make mistakes. :lol:

Fortunately it's an easy fix.

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 28 Jan 2021, 22:31
by Max Wright
Ah. That's more betterer. :)

T-61A 57.JPG


Now, I've been looking through the 45 photos I took when I visited the prototype during the inspection for sale.

Ribs.JPG


I noticed that there are small ribs in the front half of the wings - each one between the main ribs.

To improve the scale look of the wings, I'm thinking about running some pin striping tape across the sheeted areas.

Pin striping tape is available from Speed Shops in a variety of widths. I have some left over from when I was a rail modeller in another life. I'll see if have some in the same width as the ribs.

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 06 Feb 2021, 09:19
by Max Wright
Well, I had a nice surprise this week. Cliff Evans has been lobbying Barry from Sarik on my behalf, about my cowl and canopy. I've received a PM from Barry (and an email), agreeing that there are some issues with his website.

Long story short, I've paid for them using PayPal and they should be on their way.

Thanks very much for your efforts on my behalf, Cliff. 8-)

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 06 Feb 2021, 09:24
by Max Wright
Now; progress - such as it has been.

The wrong braces have been fixed.
T-61A 57.JPG


One spoiler has been fitted. Four views should cover the other wing as well.

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Bottom line - it works!

Cheers

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 06 Feb 2021, 09:31
by Peter Balcombe
Coming along nicely Max :)

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 06 Feb 2021, 09:38
by Max Wright
Thanks, Peter. 8-)

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 06 Feb 2021, 11:01
by B Sharp
That looks fine Max, you are getting there. I have very mixed feelings about the Falke mainly because most of my trips in it were "check rides" with a suitably stern CFI sat beside me (often after I had blotted my copybook).
Brian. :D

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 06 Feb 2021, 12:33
by Max Wright
Thanks, Brian.

I remember copybooks. :lol:

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 06 Feb 2021, 13:45
by Barry_Cole
I remember blots too...

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

BC

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 06 Feb 2021, 18:37
by Barry Atkinson
Hi Max

Your canopy and cowl are on the way to you - shipped yesterday.

Barry A

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 06 Feb 2021, 18:39
by Barry Atkinson
Above photos in case you're still looking for a colour scheme?

That was me about to take an ATC lad on an experience flight circa 1984 ish...

Barry A

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 06 Feb 2021, 20:01
by Max Wright
Thanks, Barry.

I'm working this build around the South Australian Scouts aircraft.
glider-1080.jpg

Unfortunately the three of them have been sold off, due to financial pressures.

sa resized.JPG

I managed to get 45 photos of this one in the shed on the day that the Assessors were there, getting them ready for the sale. I've sent them to Cliff in a Drop box for the forum archive.

I'm very happy that we have been able to sort out the bits. Pulling them myself was going to add extra time to the build. :D

Stay safe.

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 08 Feb 2021, 11:12
by Max Wright
Yesterday at the Club was Thermal Comp. One of the winches developed a bird's nest tangle. Our Vice President was helping to untangle it when someone stepped on the switch. Off came the end of his left index finger.

Clearly the battery must be disconnected before any remedial work is attempted. :oops:

Today I thought I'd cheer myself up and headed up to the penthouse for some modelling.

I managed to finish the covers for the servos in the right side wing.

T-61A 62.JPG
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I seem to be going in slow motion. :P

Cheers

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 08 Feb 2021, 14:26
by Cliff Evans
OOOOUch!!!!!

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 22 Feb 2021, 08:43
by Max Wright
There's been a lot going around here - also some modelling. :P


I rather liked the look of these lightening holes in the ailerons.

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I finished installing the servos in the second wing, and connected up the spoiler.

T-61A 66.JPG


And installed one of the wing wheels.

T-61A 67.JPG

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 01 Mar 2021, 06:11
by Max Wright
Well, it looks like all of the actual building of the wings is done.

The last of the hatches is done . . .

T-61A 68.JPG


The wiring is done and both wheels are on . . .

T-61A 69.JPG
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So tomorrow I've dedicated a full day to putty, sand paper and general tarting up ready for covering.

It's taken around 4 months to get here - Chris would have built two gliders by now. :lol:

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 04 Mar 2021, 04:55
by Max Wright
Barry Atkinson wrote: 06 Feb 2021, 18:37 Hi Max

Your canopy and cowl are on the way to you - shipped yesterday.

Barry A
Hi Barry

They were waiting for me on the deck when I arrived home last night.

Pretty good service - what with COVID and all.

Cheers

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 13 Mar 2021, 07:38
by Max Wright
Today we started to get a bit of colour . . .

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I wasn't able to use the 3mm pin striping tape to simulate the riblets as the tape wouldn't stick to the wood.

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 14 Mar 2021, 12:38
by Max Wright
Before I finish the second wing, I need to make wing bags to protect them during the rest of the build.


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The bags are made from the aluminum/foam rubber used as underlay for floating timber floors.

I make them for all of my models and they keep them safe from harm.

The joins are stapled and reinforced with gaffer tape.

They cost around A$10.00 each to make. I haven't included the cost of my labour. :lol:

Cheers

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 20 Mar 2021, 07:34
by Max Wright
Apologies in advance, chaps. I couldn't resist a couple more "glamour" shots . . .

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Now, I promise I'll put them away in their wing bags and get on with the fuz. :P

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 20 Mar 2021, 08:57
by Peter Balcombe
So the wings didn’t turn out too bad after all Max ;)

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 20 Mar 2021, 11:59
by Max Wright
Nooo. But I was a bit worried at the begining, begninnin, begingin, start Peter. :?

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 29 Mar 2021, 02:05
by Max Wright
OK. I'm at one of those spots which is taking a bit of thinking - so now you know why it's taking so long. :lol:

I've set my frames up on my Robbie Bridson jig and cut my upper "keel" as Cliff calls it. I think boaties might call it a king plank. Anyway, It's 19 mm at the front and 6 mm at the rear according to the instructions.

No problems so far - however there is a bit of a one when I try to add it to the tops of the frames . . .

T-61A 81.JPG
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I've double and triple checked the locations of the frames on the jig. In any case, the locations of frames 3,4 and 5 are predetermined by the tabs. So I'm nearly convinced that I'm going to have to "adjust" either the plank or the frames. I think that I'll opt for cutting out the notches in the frames as they have more meat.

I'll allow time for comments before I commence the surgery. :D :?

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 29 Mar 2021, 08:56
by Cliff Evans
I would notch the keel rather than extend the notches in the formers. If you do it that way it will lock the formers in position. And it is called a "keel" because it is not a boat! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 12 Apr 2021, 08:05
by Max Wright
Sorry, Cliff.

I didn't get a notification of your post - so naturally I've done the opposite. :oops:

I don't know what's happened to my profile. I went to this thread and the forum kicked me out and made me log in again. Anyway, I'm back. 8-) I notice that there have been a couple of other posts on other threads I've been following, that I haven't received as well. Not to worry, I'll chase them up now I'm back in.

I'm doing my 10,000 steps a day up in the studio walking between the plans and the build table.

I've got two longerons and two shorterons in and two more long ones spliced, ready to go.

T-61A 83.JPG


Onwards and upwards. 8-)

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 18 Apr 2021, 23:04
by Max Wright
I'm still chugging along. :P

I've got all of the top longerons in, but now I've noticed that I won't be able to get my hand inside to tighten the wing joiners.

I had a look at Trevor's blog, as he cut all of his kit himself - and I noticed that his former isn't solid like mine.

I've left the cross piece in and just opened the top half.

T-61A 84.JPG

Cheers

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 19 Apr 2021, 09:36
by Trevor
Hello Max. I can’t remember if you’re going with the ‘rubber bands and cup hooks’ wing retention method. If so, it’s quite feasible to fit the bands without any internal access - you’ll just need a longer hook than usual to pull the bands through. However, as you’ve noticed, I opted to keep access clear so that I can fit the bands from inside, once the wings are fully home. Note that I also glued the rear glazed section of the cockpit to the removable canopy, again for ease of access to the internals.

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 25 Apr 2021, 09:12
by Max Wright
Thanks, Trevor.

I'm not ignoring you, I just don't get any notifications of posts.

The collective wisdom at our club is to use cable ties, rather than rubber bands. Once they are threaded through, they can be tightened by using long nosed pliers - similar to the old sardine tin lids.

You may be old enough to remember them. :lol:

It's the system I use on my Grunau and other gliders.

In the meanwhile, I've been adding some more bits of wood . . .

T-61A 85.JPG
T-61A 86.JPG


It's all feeling nice and strong.

Cheers

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 25 Apr 2021, 09:16
by Max Wright
Trevor wrote: 19 Apr 2021, 09:36 Hello Max. Note that I also glued the rear glazed section of the cockpit to the removable canopy, again for ease of access to the internals.
I thought that was how you did it, Trevor.

I was planning to steal that idea. :P

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 24 May 2021, 01:14
by Max Wright
These plans are clearly for experienced builders, so I'm having to think a lot about each new section before I jump in.

This is after completion of the rear stabiliser . . .

T-61A 87.JPG

Now I've got the elevator built . . .

T-61A 88.JPG

And the hinges are epoxied into the elevator and loosely fitted to the stabiliser . . .

T-61A 89.JPG

Now I have to glue in the trims on the elevator and carefully sand both parts so the elevator can rotate inside the sheath on the stabiliser.

The trim tab on the plans doesn't match my prototype photos, so I've adjusted it.

Softly, softly, etc. 8-)

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 24 May 2021, 17:33
by B Sharp
You are slowly getting there Max. I like the workmanship.
Brian. :)

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 24 May 2021, 21:39
by Max Wright
Thanks, Brian. 8-)

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 25 May 2021, 08:15
by Trevor
Coming along nicely Max. There can't be many bits left in the box now!

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 30 May 2021, 08:34
by Max Wright
Thanks, Trevor.

I'm not ignoring you. For some reason I get no notification of posts in any thread on this forum.

Yep. There are only the fin and rudder, plus canopy parts left in the box - oh and the bits for the bottom of the fuse..

A few bits are missing, but nothing too hard to make. I've kept a list somewhere. :P

Anyway . . . the rear stabiliser and elevator are done.
T-61A 90.JPG
T-61A 91.JPG

I hope to mount them to the fuse next and set the incidence.

Cheers

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 30 May 2021, 08:57
by Barry_Cole
Max,
Make sure you are signed in.
If you click on the "Quick Links" at the top left corner, and then on "Unread Posts", you will see everthing that is unread by you..
You may well get a lot the first time you do it, just open them all, and then you will just get the new ones.

No need to miss anything that gets posted.

8-) 8-) 8-) 8-)

BC

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 30 May 2021, 09:55
by Max Wright
Hi Barry

I've been through all of this before - I even used to have my own modelling forum, so I know how it's supposed to work; but this forum is different.

If I subscribe to a thread, I should get an email every time someone posts on it.

I shouldn't have to log in and search around to see what's going on.

That's not how it goes here - but the quality of the builds make it worthwhile to put up with it.

When I make a new post on my thread, I usually check back to see if anyone has commented. Then next time I post, I also find posts (like Trevor's), and apologise for not answering and move along.

I know that I (or my machine), will get the blame for it; but I've just spent A$3000 on a new laptop and I have every search engine known to Man and two different email systems. I'm pretty tech savvy as well.

Thanks for your interest.

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 30 May 2021, 10:00
by RobbieB
Max, have you checked the correct boxes are ticked in: Notifications > Settings > Board settings?

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 30 May 2021, 10:11
by Max Wright
Hi Robbie

Yep. All checked. I just had another look.

It's a mystery, Watson. ;)

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 30 May 2021, 11:56
by RobbieB
Ok, next question; are you using Gmail or Hotmail as your email service by any chance?

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 30 May 2021, 14:07
by Max Wright
No. I'm using Outlook and Thunderbird.

My ISP is iiNet who also host my business domain and website.

I never lose any emails - except from this site.

Interestingly, I'm getting reply emails tonight from you.

I receive around 100 emails a day without any problems - probably half of them from forums.

The quality of the content is sufficient for me the endure the challenges of the site.

Don't worry about it, Robbie. I'm coping.

Cheers

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 14 Jun 2021, 00:16
by Max Wright
I'm about to set the rear stabiliser incidence, but I want to check the position of the fin.

T-61A 92.JPG

The incidence (as I understand it), is the angle between the wing and the stabiliser. The plans say that the wings are 0º I'm assuming that it is 0º from the datum build line.

The wings can't go anywhere other than where the tabs on the fuselage formers put them. The formers are sitting on the build datum line - sooo I'm guessing that the stabiliser incidence is -3º to the datum.

If anyone has any contrary views, I would be please to hear them.

Cheers :)

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 14 Jun 2021, 05:35
by Max Wright
. . . and while I'm pondering that . . .

Here is the prototype . . .

T-61A 93.JPG

Here is the plan . . .

T-61A 94.JPG

and here's the fin . . .

T-61A 95.JPG

Looks like I've some creative work to do. ;)

Cheers

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 14 Jun 2021, 08:57
by Cliff Evans
.4mm ply sheeting should have stopped at base rib 1F not, 2F.

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 14 Jun 2021, 11:08
by chris williams
It might be worth noting that, in common with most Scheibe motorgliders, the crank of the TE for the first few ribs at the wing root means that the wing root has a negative AOA compared to the rest of the wing. (I have always assumed that this allows the the TE to sit flush with the fuselage, rather than dangling below it) So, when assessing decalage, it's best to put the meter outboard of the TE crank...

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 16 Jun 2021, 22:29
by Max Wright
Thanks, guys. Sorry for not replying sooner. I don't get email notifications from this forum.

I'm not sure what you're getting at, Cliff. But thanks.

Hi Chris. What I think I get from your answer, is that I should ignore the datum line and set the decalage by zeroing my meter on the wing - outboard of the crank (for obvious reasons), then measuring the horizontal stabiliser.

Cheers

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 16 Jun 2021, 23:24
by Cliff Evans
Max Wright wrote: 16 Jun 2021, 22:29
I'm not sure what you're getting at, Cliff. But thanks.
sheeting.png

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 17 Jun 2021, 07:55
by Trevor
Max, why not just make the seat for the tailplane to the shape shown on the plan and trust Cliff C. to have drawn it right? I certainly don't remember confusing myself by trying to measure decalage angles when building mine - sometimes, as they say, ignorance is bliss!

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 17 Jun 2021, 08:05
by Max Wright
Hi Trevor

I completely misread the plans. :?

I had no idea that F1 was supposed to be part of the fin. I thought that it is glued to the fuselage as a lower support for the fin.

It wasn't until I went back to the prototype photos that things didn't add up.

I'm sure that I can work around it. I've had to do it a few times already.

I like to think of it as character building. :P

Cheers

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 17 Jun 2021, 08:30
by Max Wright
Cliff went to the trouble of writing the incidence on the plan, so I thought I'd better check it. ;)

I'm going to need a bit of extra weight in the tail to balance the speakers. :lol:

Cheers

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 17 Jun 2021, 09:04
by Cliff Evans
Cliffs plans have been built from for many years without issue!

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 17 Jun 2021, 09:12
by Max Wright
I'm breaking new ground, then. :lol:

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 17 Jun 2021, 09:26
by Cliff Evans
Max Wright wrote: 17 Jun 2021, 09:12 I'm breaking new ground, then. :lol:
Ha ha. :lol: :lol:

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 24 Jun 2021, 23:22
by Max Wright
Rebuilt fin and rudder attached . . .
T-61A 96.JPG

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 25 Jun 2021, 08:03
by Trevor
That looks better :) Is the fin removable? If not, I hope you can get to that tailplane retaining bolt!

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 26 Jun 2021, 09:50
by Max Wright
Yep. It all bolts together as per, Trevor.

I "came by" a ¼ scale ASW-28 the other day. It needs at bit of TLC, but it should be ready for our Scale Aero Tow on 4th of July. The Falke is feeling a bit out of it. :)

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 14 Jul 2021, 00:27
by Max Wright
A quick shot of the fin and rudder . . .

T-61A 97.JPG

I think that is a Pitot tube at the top of the fin.

Cheers

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 14 Jul 2021, 08:28
by Max Wright
From this . . .

T-61A 98.JPG

to this . . .

T-61A 99.JPG

Different lighting in each photo makes the colour comparison odious, but they look OK to the naked eye. :shock:

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 14 Jul 2021, 09:07
by Peter Balcombe
Looking good Max :)

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 15 Jul 2021, 09:59
by Max Wright
Thanks, Peter.

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 31 Jul 2021, 01:58
by Max Wright
OK I haven't posted for a while, as I've been sitting and thinking.

The 'b' frames along the dorsal side of the fuselage are particularly ill fitting, with gaps of 1 mm or more. I resolved that by using micro balloons in epoxy to fill the gaps, with strength adding to the joints.

The most challenging issue is the trailing edges of the root rib pairs on each side. They should end in line with the longerons, but they are several milimetres too wide.

T-61A 100.JPG

The same view on the plan shows their correct position.

T-61A 101.JPG

So, I'm going to have to design a fairing piece for each side - otherwise there will be a sharp point sticking into the covering.

I'm still not getting emails from this forum, so I'll check back in a few days to see if there are any comments.

Cheers

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 31 Jul 2021, 09:06
by Cliff Evans
What you must remember Max is that these plans were all originally hand drawn and as such are wide open to errors of all sorts.

I have checked all settings on your account re emails, there is no reason other than something at your end as to why you should not be getting notifications.

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.

Posted: 01 Aug 2021, 01:23
by Max Wright
Yes. I get that now, Cliff.

I'm just a bit concerned that there would be a sharp point under the covering, so I'm thinking about how I want to deal with it. That's what is taking so long - the thinking. :P

I'm on several forums, and I receive around 100 emails a day - including RCSB and YouTube; notifying me of posts. The issue is unique to this forum. Having had my own forum, I understand how they work - and also that there are many set ups in design.

I've looked and looked my end, but I can't see the reason for the disconnect either.

I just mention it so people won't think that I'm rude when I don't reply straight away. I also pop in from time to time even if I'm not posting; to see what's happening.

Cheers

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.**

Posted: 03 Aug 2021, 14:09
by Alex Tankink
OMG

I remember seeing this aircraft (or one very much like it) as a young lad. There was also a Falke with the Airforce cadets and I flew in a similar one that was cream and red out of Border Town.

Looking forward to seeing this build! Great stuff

Funny I just got that book last week and studying it hard ahead of my first build an ASK 18 kit hopefully landing soon.

Cheers Alex

Adelaide

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.**

Posted: 23 Aug 2021, 05:09
by Max Wright
Hi Alex

Thanks.

I just got a notification of your post from the 3rd August, today.

I've had a bit of a lay off of the build, but I'm hoping to get back into it very soon.

Good luck with the ASK 18.

Cheers

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.**

Posted: 21 Sep 2021, 10:04
by Max Wright
Well. I've had a few challenges - or should I say, "We." My wife and I have been tested these last few weeks, so the first thing to be hit was the model build. However, we are seeing some light at the end of the tunnel, so a few tentative steps have been taken.

T-61A 102.JPG

A bit of planking has commenced . . .

I'll Look back in, in a couple of days in case there have been any replies.

Cheers

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.**

Posted: 21 Sep 2021, 11:25
by Cliff Evans
Max, I am following this build, because of that I was notified of your post, which is why I cannot understand why you are not getting your notifications.

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.**

Posted: 21 Sep 2021, 13:13
by Max Wright
Hi Cliff.

Well I certainly got yours by email. That's progress. 8-)

Cheers

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.**

Posted: 21 Sep 2021, 14:32
by Cliff Evans
Great!

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.**

Posted: 22 Oct 2021, 05:57
by Max Wright
Well, I'm chugging along. Just about completed the canopy frame.

T-61A 103.JPG

The angle of the dash board is not correct. It should be vertical, not on an angle. I'm not going to stress about it.


I started looking at the moulding I got from Barry at Sarik, for the cowling. I must say I couldn't get my head around it until I placed it above a photo of the prototype. :lol:

T-61A 104.JPG

Now it makes sense. 8-)

Barry described it as ABS on the docket. What's the correct glue for that, please?

Cheers

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.**

Posted: 28 Oct 2021, 04:17
by Max Wright
OK Some progress; one conundrum. :D

In preparation for fitting the cowl and motor, I made up a device which shows me the main shaft of the motor, as it protrudes from the firewall.

1.JPG

Here it is with the cowl tacked into place.

2.JPG

Here's a shot of the prototype.

6.JPG

Clearly the motor is sitting too low. To be scale, I estimate that it needs to go up 20 mm.

4.JPG

My first reaction is to assume that I have made a mistake during the building, but all of the measurements match the plan exactly. It's clear that the motor needs to be drawn mounted higher.

On the plan, the centre line of the crankshaft is centred on the teardrop bulge, but on the prototype, the crankshaft lines up with top of the teardrop

Is it possible to elevate the position of the motor, without needing excessive compensating elevator for level flight? Or, if the motor is moved upward, is it possible to shim the mounts to correct the situation?

3.JPG

I'll check back in a day or so, to see if anyone has replied.

Cheers

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.**

Posted: 28 Oct 2021, 08:46
by SP250
Max
Could it be that the plan drawing is incorrect?
Comparing it with the pic of the full size, it seems that there is a significant downward slope to the front top cowling when it gets to the motor/spinner location at the front face, from the windscreen base to the spinner location.
Maybe your cowling needs to be mounted slightly more nose down (which will give a downthrust issue) but would bring the thrust line more central to the round spinner opening and the motor could stay mounted as per plan on the firewall.
Having done a fair bit of scale judging (for BMFA scale RC and FF competitions) I can safely say the times when the photos of the full size contradict scale and construction drawings are many and often.

John M

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.**

Posted: 28 Oct 2021, 08:59
by Max Wright
Thanks, John.

It will be difficult to change the rake of the cowling, as the top line extends the line of the fuselage above the instrument panel.

I took all 52 photos of the prototype, so I'm confident of the angles.

I'm going for a scale outline, so I'm not keen to 'bodge' the cowling.

I mainly want to know, if I reposition the motor upwards, what shimming will be necessary (if any), to balance the elevator.

Cheers

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.**

Posted: 28 Oct 2021, 09:54
by Trevor
Max. I suspect that there is quite a bit of variation amongst the full size examples. Here is a pic of the one I based my model on:

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.**

Posted: 28 Oct 2021, 11:18
by Peter Balcombe
Max,
It could be that Cliff Charlesworth positioned his prop height to suit his planned engine installation, rather than keeping to true scale in that area.
Having said that, it’s interesting that the cowl appears to have the cutout in a more scale position.

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.**

Posted: 28 Oct 2021, 12:07
by Max Wright
Hi Trevor

That one has the crank shaft in line with the top of the tear drop.

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.**

Posted: 28 Oct 2021, 12:08
by Max Wright
Hi Peter

No one appears to be addressing my question.

Cheers

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.**

Posted: 28 Oct 2021, 16:07
by Cliff Evans
Peter Balcombe wrote: 28 Oct 2021, 11:18 Max,
It could be that Cliff Charlesworth positioned his prop height to suit his planned engine installation, rather than keeping to true scale in that area.
Having said that, it’s interesting that the cowl appears to have the cutout in a more scale position.

I think Peter addressed the question!

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.**

Posted: 28 Oct 2021, 20:58
by Max Wright
Hi Cliff

The question was/is . . . If the motor is moved above the thrust line, does that cause the model to require up or down elevator to compensate? My research is telling me that it will require down elevator.

That should be an easy fix - place washers under the top stand offs to shim it down.

Cheers

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.**

Posted: 28 Oct 2021, 22:32
by Peter Balcombe
Max,
In olden days it was necessary to add down/side thrust to compensate for thrust lines & torque roll, which tended to complicate the cowling penetrations as the prop shaft/backplate wasn’t square to the cowl penetration/front face.

These days, I suspect that it is much more practical to compensate by mixing elevator with throttle etc. as required & keep the motor installation/cowl penetration straightforward.
Peter

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.**

Posted: 28 Oct 2021, 22:37
by Max Wright
Yep. Thanks, Peter.

I have those mixes on some of my planes.

It was as much an academic enquiry as anything.

Starting in this hobby at 70, I have a lot of catching up to do. :D

Cheers

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.**

Posted: 29 Oct 2021, 00:04
by BrianF
Hi Max, I have looked at every image I could find for GVZ.
Firstly, I think the motor thrust line might be correct or very close to it for the standard Falke T61.
Secondly, GVZ has a different cowl shape. The teardrops are a different and are angled down compared to the "standard" cowl. That may change the visuals a bit. Plus there is an optical ilusion in the image you posted.
Thirdly, provided all other factors have already been addressed for balanced flight. Thrust angle would be more important to set correctly (during the application of thrust) and once set moving the engine up or down a bit wouldn't affect much.
Those power pods you see on top of models induce a large pitch down, so they have the thrust line angled up around 5deg or more, they are also mounted nearer the CG longitudinally and have a much larger moment vertically. The small change you might do on your firewall won't have much of an affect, easily countered by elevator trim.

It might not be relevant but I got caught out by this optical illusion initially.
It might not be relevant but I got caught out by this optical illusion initially.
Nice front view also shows the "line". Photo taken in 2008. Not sure if the black antiglare paint went on before or after.
Nice front view also shows the "line". Photo taken in 2008. Not sure if the black antiglare paint went on before or after.
Another cowl shot.
Another cowl shot.

I found a web advert stating GVZ is for sale for $12000. Buy it, convert to R/C and you have a great 100% scale model. :D

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.**

Posted: 29 Oct 2021, 00:23
by BrianF
I forgot about the ABS glue question. I've done a lot of experimenting. Best is to melt some of the offcuts in some acetone and make a slurry about the consistency of cream, apply, clamp or tape and let set for a day. However if the ABS pieces are thin, don't apply too much, the solvent might be too aggressive. Some plastic model cements work well, Tamiya make an ABS cement. I don't use epoxy or super glue on ABS as the results have been mostly unreliable.

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.**

Posted: 29 Oct 2021, 05:23
by Max Wright
Hi Brian

Love your work. 8-)

Here is the glue that I used in the end. It welds the pieces together so well, that the parent plastic will break before the joint lets go.

8.JPG

Can't ask for more than that. I'm betting that the cowl is polystyrene. :geek:

I called in at our RC gliding club on the way home this afternoon and created a lively discussion among the members. :lol:

The consensus was the same as yours, so I'm going for the position that gives me the right 'look' and adjusting the motor afterwards.

Everyone's efforts are most appreciated.

Cheers

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.**

Posted: 14 Nov 2021, 07:15
by Max Wright
No? Oh well.

A bit more work again. Two full days over the weekend.

T-61A 110.JPG
T-61A 111.JPG

Cheers

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.**

Posted: 14 Nov 2021, 09:04
by Trevor
NIce to see it coming along Max. Have you sorted out your battery stowage and access arrangements?

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.**

Posted: 14 Nov 2021, 09:11
by Max Wright
Thanks, Trevor.

I'm working on it. ;)

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.**

Posted: 03 Dec 2021, 07:07
by Max Wright
Hi guys. I'm not ignoring you - just don't get any emails from this forum.


Not to worry; here is some activity . . .


Took my ¼ scale ASW 28 to Bordertown a couple of weekends ago, for Aero-tow.

Here she is with her big sister in half scale

ASW 28 resized.JPG


Moving right along with the Motor Falke and working on the underside, wheels and other hardware.

T-61A 111.JPG
T-61A 112.JPG
T-61A 115.JPG
T-61A 113.JPG


The photos keep disappearing. I'll keep playing with it until I get them all in.

T-61A 114.JPG

I can't get them to go into the thread in the right order, so you'll just have to work them out.


I'll try submitting them and see if I can edit them that way. :shock:


The photo of the tail is supposed to be second to last.

Cheers

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.**

Posted: 03 Dec 2021, 08:17
by Trevor
Coming along nicely Max. It's going to look great in that colour scheme.

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.**

Posted: 03 Dec 2021, 08:58
by Max Wright
Thanks, Trevor.

I quite like the grey cowling. :D

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.**

Posted: 12 Dec 2021, 07:38
by Max Wright
Still moving forward, the tail feathers have now been fettled.

T-61A 116.JPG
T-61A 117.JPG

The elevator has been connected to the servo, but the supports for the push rod are still to be installed and the cables for the rudder still have to be connected to the servo.

As the elevator can be dismantled, the push rod will be able to be withdrawn after it is disconnected from its servo.

The fin and rudder also can be dismantled by disconnecting the bolts holding the swivel clevises. The tail wheel will remain connected to the rudder.

Cheers

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.**

Posted: 27 Dec 2021, 06:29
by Max Wright
What with Covid exploding, Christmas, et al . . . Not much progress.

T-61A 118.JPG

The brains of the beast. 8-)

T-61A 119.JPG

Exciters installed.

I'll leave setting up the sound system until I've proved up the radio control.

Cheers

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.**

Posted: 12 Jan 2022, 06:22
by Max Wright
So. We reach the end of the build.

I doubt that it will fly successfully as the wing loading is very high and the rear stabiliser incidence is nothing like the plan - according to my incidence meter.

The empennage must be heavy as I needed 1.5 kg to get it to balance on its marks.

Total weight = 8.475 kg. I'm not confident calculating wing loading. 1710 square inches of wing area looks like 25 oz/square foot, but I could be wrong.

Anyway, the sound system was a success. 107db

I might just try some high speed taxi trials to see if it will lift off.

I don't really want to crash it, as it looks quite good.

Here's a walk around . . .

T-61A 120.JPG
T-61A 121.JPG
T-61A 122.JPG
T-61A 123.JPG

Cheers

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.**

Posted: 12 Jan 2022, 08:04
by Trevor
I can't recall what the design weight is for this model but those wings do carry weight pretty well - and if there is an issue with the tailplane incidence, it can be trimmed out with the elevator, so hopefully your pessimism is misplaced.

Either way, it's looking great. Good luck with the maiden.

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.**

Posted: 12 Jan 2022, 08:56
by Max Wright
Thanks, Trevor.

The rear stabiliser is adjustable as well - provided we can get up and down in one piece. I built it according to the plan, so it will be a good starting place.

Yours came in at around 5 kg, so this build is a new interpretation.

I'm hoping that our long runway will give us a chance to get a good look in.

Cheers

Re: Falke T-61A Cliff Charlesworth Plans.**

Posted: 12 Jan 2022, 09:17
by Adam C
I use wing cube loading to assess a models performance to take account of scale.

http://www.flyrc.com/wing-load-calculator/

Yours comes in as 7.3 , so the same as a trainer/light sports model. Perfect.