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Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 21 Jul 2015, 15:27
by VinceC
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I have been out of action for a while due to other problems. but I have finally motivated myself to get on and build from a plan I drew some while ago. I previously posted about the Australian two seat Zephyrus with what I consider to have a most beautiful wing shape. I have put together a web page for you to take a look at and admire this 1960's glider which used to compete well against glass gliders in its early days.

http://www.scalesoaring.co.uk/VINTAGE/D ... hyrus.html

The model is at 1:3.5 scale, but it will still be a beefy glider with a long and very deep fuselage.I have made a start on the fuselage, but immediately came across problems associated with lack of information, but I think I have now overcome that hurdle and hopefully moving on. I am not rushing with this, as eventually I hope to make the plan available for free to join our growing list.

Thanks go to Cliff for laser cutting the parts for me

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 21 Jul 2015, 15:31
by VinceC
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I started with the centre fuselage section as it all plugs nicely together, but later found I had to modify the shape of the area underside, following more information. An additional nose is added to the root rib and the whole sanded back for an attachment area for the canopy

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 21 Jul 2015, 15:35
by VinceC
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A dry fit provide the fit of all the longerons until I hit a brick wall with the waistline and underside profiles. These have now been adjusted after more details from Auz and work continues

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 21 Jul 2015, 16:35
by Barry_Cole
Good to see you building again Vince. Keep it up.

:D :D :D :D :D :D

BC

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 21 Jul 2015, 21:16
by Dion Dunn
Very interesting subject. Looking forward to watching this one progress.

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 22 Jul 2015, 08:11
by RobbieB
Vince,

I see what you mean about that wing - stick at it!

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 23 Jul 2015, 07:24
by Tom Pack
Way to go Vince! Excellent work.... looking forward to seeing this one completed!

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 26 Jul 2015, 13:37
by VinceC
A build log is not my idea of fun, so please forgive the amateur status. If you are a fan of Jigs, then look away now as you won't see one.

I pondered over how I was going to build the fuselage as I had already built the centre section. To jig or not to jig, that was the question, until I hit upon the idea of building inverted starting at the rear. I always cover my building area with heavy duty wallpaper dry liner and onto this I drew the fuselage centre line to which the fuselage top longeron was tacked into position on the wallpaper along its length using cyano. I then glued the upper and lower rear fuselage longerons into position, inverted the assembly and laid out on the workbench with the fuselage top longeron on the centre line. By measuring each rear former station position, I assembled the formers onto the longeron with the tall rudder post former hanging off and below my work area. I fastened two carbon rods vertically onto the front and rear formers as sight line to check on the build vertical straightness.
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Next up was to install the two side longerons which hold the fabric off the formers. On the full size they are just strips of wood, but I decided to make them deeper as part of the structure and inset them horizontally into the formers. The outside edge of these strips has to be slightly rounded.

Here I hit my first problem in that the fuselage waist from the centre section to the rear was a bit severe, but fortunately I was able to obtain photos from Australia to give me some idea of the angles required. This raises a problem with 3-views, in that they only generally show the widest point and what goes on below that can be a mystery. I remade two formers and changed the wheel housing shape.


Then came my next headache - how to create the 'S' bends in these longerons, which were still quite severe.I had been informed that soaking the wood with Ammonia would help shape the wood - DON'T DO IT. I wasted time and broke longerons and it all failed, so back to steaming to bend them. I have steamed wood for years, but it has always been a lash up to create something to work with, so I decided once and for all to make a proper steamer. Details of this are in the forum here:

http://scalesoaring.co.uk/phpBB3/viewto ... ?f=7&t=338
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Now I could proceed to add the main side longerons, which are a straight line through the centre section and the lower longeron, passing alongside the wheel housing and clamping onto the rear fuselage bottom longeron in a 'V' fashion.

Now to the question of building the front section. Fortunately the two smaller side longerons are parallel to each other from back to front. This allowed me to mark the stations for the forward formers and glue them in place up to, but not including the nose former as there is no attachment point for them on this former. The main side longerons were glued to the first two of these formers up to the point where they will need to be steamed into shape. As there will be a chance of vertical distortion whilst bending and fitting these, I added vertical supports to the front formers in readiness for the next stage. All is going well so far and lines up accurately. Phew!
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Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 26 Jul 2015, 16:42
by B Sharp
Vince, I never cease to be amazed that there are still gliders out there that I have never seen or even heard of and that have not been modelled before. I spent a bit of time scratching my head over the photographs and working out where the structure was going, but I am seriously impressed. Keep up the good work Vince and keep the photos coming.
Brian. :)

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 31 Jul 2015, 01:14
by ARUP
Yes... the wings are a great shape! The wheel fairing leaves a little to be desired but it is a cool build and unusual sailplane! Keep up the great work!

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 03 Aug 2015, 07:05
by VinceC
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Edmund Schneider, the German designer of the Grunau Baby and many other gliders, emigrated to Australia in the 1950's and continued his work there. He created the Kookaburra for which we have plans and of course, a kit for it. See Cliff for that.

I removed the fuselage preliminary build from my building board and then took time off to draw the instruments for the front seat panel. From the drawing, Cliff will create the panel and bezels and send me to me 3D printed. He can also do this for you and if you can't draw the instruments, we can do that for you as well.

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 11 Aug 2015, 17:38
by VinceC
Next stage was to stiffen the tail end by adding internal braces. The rear formers then had balsa added to their faces to increase their gluing area. I mostly did this with home made 6mm balsa quadrant. After adding 1.5mm balsa around the formers, grain lengthways to allow easy bending, I sanded the upper rear section level before finishing with the 0.8mm ply covering. Details of this are on the drawing.
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This left the creation of the removable (at least on the full size) alluminium panel at the back of the wing area. I sheeted between the ribs then marked off the fuselage blend area into this cover, adding at the same time the rear fillets to the fuselage.
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This line runs from a point at the front to the side intersect of the fuselage and beyond, just encroaching on the fillets. This was then masked off so that the glue would not spread outwards.
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A cone shaped plywood cover was created with a steam iron to fit this area. On the full size the back edge is slightly lifted off the fuselage, so I taped on the fuselage a few layers of polythene in this rear position to reproduce this effect.
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At present the edge is slightly high, but that will reduce once the covering is added to the fuselage.

The top cover was now epoxied in place and when set, lightweight filler was added to the join to create a transition between the parts and briefly sanded to shape.

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 11 Aug 2015, 20:35
by RobbieB
Time to start practicing those rivets Vince.

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 11 Aug 2015, 21:15
by Tom Pack
Beautiful work Vince.......

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 12 Aug 2015, 08:10
by VinceC
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I forgot to mention that I have now drawn the instruments for the rear seat occupant

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 18 Aug 2015, 02:59
by ARUP
So far so good with the Zephyrus! And yes... ammonia destroys lignin in wood causing the fibers to become brittle. Some will say they used just a little ammonia with good results but then I'll say they just damaged their wood a little and it is fortunate the structure was overbuilt! Ship modeler's were responsible for the investigative study to scientifically prove that ammonia damages wood(?)

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 18 Aug 2015, 17:32
by VinceC
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Moving slowly on.....

I have added the cockpit re-enforcement metal tubes. These are mostly to stabilise the cabin area once the side door is cut out

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 18 Aug 2015, 17:35
by VinceC
Now to remove the door and build the door and fuselage frames
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Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 21 Aug 2015, 17:09
by VinceC
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When designing this model, I had a problem with the position of the lower strut fixing, as the position was right on a lower longeron. I got over this by making two brackets which straddle the longeron and attach to a 12mm dia. Alluminium tube left over from the wing joiner. This tube is then glued and screwed to the former. The result is that the stresses are passed around the longeron.

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 28 Aug 2015, 14:34
by VinceC
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Work is going slow due to other matters which need attention, but I am pleased with the plan so far.

After strengthening the axle area of the wheel housing with DuraI, I have added the wheel (sorry, I forgot the photo) into its housing .
The Multiplex nose release fits nicely into a 12mm Ally tube (B&Q) and eventually this front area will be filled with lead and body filler as per the CW method.
A large skid has been created using 4 x 1.5mm Ply pieces glued together in situ on the fuselage to create the shape. It is presently held in place with a 3mm screw through a replica bracket at the nose and a penny washer on the inside to spread the load. Unfortunately I cannot complete it until I get the rubber suspension from the postman.

After my last post, it was suggested to me that the Brass fixings to hold the wing struts may prove to be unreliable because Brass may be subject to metal fatigue on the bends, so these have been re-manufactured in 18swg m.s. plate.This assembly has now been glued and screwed into position permanently.

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 01 Sep 2015, 16:12
by VinceC
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Underside of front fuselage is sheeted with 1.5mm ply

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 16 Sep 2015, 12:53
by VinceC
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The Zephyurs has finally grown a tail. The span of the tailplane is 1 meter, so that gives you an idea of the size of the model

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 16 Sep 2015, 22:12
by Jus Gordon
Lovely work.

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 17 Sep 2015, 12:38
by ARUP
Agreed! It's a shame the structure will get covered.

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 20 Oct 2015, 11:52
by VinceC
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Don't do as I do.......

What a mess I got myself into. I needed to create a fibre glass fairing to replicate the one on the underside around the wheel, I decided to fill in between the formers with foam, shape and then cover with fibre glass matting, but I didn't think it through properly. All went well until I needed to remove the foam.

I had used a liquid fibre glass paste to stick the foam into position as pvc glue would not have set. The trouble was that it left a real mess behind, having run and dripped all over the place out of site. That took a lot of cleaning up and lesson learned. I should have constructed the housing by planking the sides and glassing over the top of that.

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 20 Oct 2015, 23:01
by Noël Rumers
Looking great Vince!!

What I do to glue foam in place is, just for this kind of thing, use a few drops of thickened 5 min epoxy with micro balls and aerosil.
You can, later on, easy grind the leftover of the epoxy out with a grinding tool if you need to, the foam can easy be taken out as well.
Worked always for me.

Noël

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 26 Oct 2015, 13:03
by VinceC
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Thanks Noël, I tried that and it works fine. I used cotton flocks to thicken the mixture and it is much harder to part.

Next is to create the canopy. First stage is to sand the contours for the front section. The back section is formed from flat sheet. It is not a 'Standard ' canopy for as you will notice the flat sides and the whole lot tapers inwards from the front to the rear. I will now extend the foam, sand to shape and apply the fibreglass to produce a smooth finish for forming the canopy.

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 27 Oct 2015, 03:38
by VinceC
Canopy Comparisons.jpg
I just realised that the original front canopy was not moulded, but probably made from flat sheets and joined, which can be seen in this photo. The shape is also completely different to present day.

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 27 Oct 2015, 06:55
by chris williams
They both look moulded to me, Vince. Skylark canopy might well do the job ;)

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 27 Oct 2015, 07:53
by VinceC
Thanks Chris. I will order one as a check

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 27 Oct 2015, 08:35
by RobbieB
The top bit certainly looks moulded Vince - either way, the 'join' would be easy enough to simulate.

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 06 Dec 2015, 11:35
by VinceC
Not a lot of progress as I am awaiting the canopy. I will probably start the wings in the New Year
  • The wheel fairing has been completed prior to finalising before painting
    The skid fittings have been made and added. The rear fitting allows the skid to move backwards on impact as per full size
    Skid.jpg
    All servos have been fitted
    Mock frame tubes added to the sides from 6mm dowel
    Cockpit sprayed
    Cockpit.jpg
    and finally the Seats made
The nose will be finished later when I know what balance weight is required

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 16 Dec 2015, 00:45
by ARUP
Looks great! Thanks for posting!

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 23 Aug 2016, 11:17
by VinceC
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My life is still in turmoil and I haven't been able to post to this thread for a while or give a blow by blow account, but I have finally got one wing shaped up with now all the ancillary work to do

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 23 Aug 2016, 16:23
by RobbieB
Looking really good Vince - keep at it.

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 23 Aug 2016, 17:00
by terry white
Hi Vince,
Far from 'amateur status' This is a great build log. I love it when builders show the things that go wrong as well as the things that go right, needing great thought and ingenuity to get around the problem,shows me that Im not the only one.You know what I mean,your watching T.V. but your mind is in the workshop.Your wife is having her one way conversation with you while your working out how to deal with the latest problem, and saying yes to her mother coming to stay and wanting a new outfit for the purpose!! You go to bed but can't sleep,you toss and turn with the problem running around and around in your head.The birds start to sing so you know its morning and you have to be up in an hour to go to work.These are the beautiful things that ARTF fliers will never experience, poor souls. ;) Regards Terry.

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 23 Aug 2016, 17:38
by Barry_Cole
Great stuff, Vince. Keep it up.

BC

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 02 Nov 2016, 13:27
by VinceC
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Building continues with the skinning of the wing top and bottom and installation of top and bottom opposing opening airbrakes.

Progress was delayed due to problems with the aileron hinging. The original was top hinged and a complicated progressive rotation of the outer wing requiring the rib nose to be dropped allowed the top hinge line between the aileron and wing to remain straight on deflection. Unfortunately I failed to achieve this almost impossible task and went for an easier centre hinge

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 07 Jan 2017, 13:11
by VinceC
You know when you are taking a long time when you have to search a long way down the Topics to add another post. The project is still under way and I have finally got the second wing just about built. All I can say is I am glad it's not a bi-plane. The second wing went easier than the first as I was aware of all the pit falls and will have to go back to the first wing at some time to make a few minor mods.
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One of my new problems is the method of securing the wings to the fuselage. The top of the fuselage cabin is glazed and rubber bands stretching across would be intrusive, so I am trying a system I heard of many years ago by using TENAX fasteners, which are used for securing the hood to the bodywork of convertible cars. The ones I purchased have a 1" stud with a 2BA thread. Fortunately the thread seems to be common to 5mm, so I have placed a 5mm 'T' Nut on the inside of the wing. The holding attachment is spring loaded so that a pull on the domed head release the connection. Well that's the theory over......
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Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 31 Jan 2017, 01:09
by ARUP
It sure has a pretty wing!

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 10 Jan 2018, 23:29
by ARUP
Yes... any news?

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 14 Jan 2018, 09:47
by VinceC
It is all built, but I have a wing joining problem to overcome

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 14 Jan 2018, 23:47
by ARUP
How about these Snap Latches? https://www.mcmaster.com/#1872A71

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 16 Jan 2018, 02:00
by ARUP
Vince- if you'd like a set of these or two then PM your address and I'll send them. :)

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 16 Jan 2018, 12:49
by VinceC
Here is my problem.

The cabin of the Zephyrus is almost totally glazed on the sides and top offering little in the way of strength.

The wing leading edge is raked back almost to the spar.

My first idea was to fit a mechanical locking system halfway along the root rib, but with the weight of the wings it just bowed the root ribs on the fuselage and would have pulled it apart on a landing

I then resorted to non scale and visible rubber bands across the fuselage which I would later box in and although they held the wing, the leading edge had a tendency to open up by the wing swivelling on the struts. Maybe the gap is made worse by the fact the hooks are behind the line of the strut

I think I should go back to a mechanical connection, but I am reluctant to secure the wing to the fuselage. One idea is to pin the outer ends of the wing joiners through the wing using nylon bolts tying both wings together, but I am open to suggestions on this one
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Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 16 Jan 2018, 17:20
by Christian Baron
Vince,
maybe you could use a 3mm steel rod with both ends bended 90 degree. This steel rod should be reach from one wing half to the other inside the fuse.
I would make steel connectors like the original has at the main spar that goes into the fuse area between the wings. Into these connectors you could press the steel rod and secure this with a screw, that the steel rod can't be remove by vibration or and move.
Hope that my english could explain what I mean.

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 17 Jan 2018, 09:10
by Christian Baron
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Made a simple drawing by hand.

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 17 Jan 2018, 13:37
by chris williams
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Vince, IMHO, a rigid wing mounting set up may be fine for aerotow, but much more liable to damage on the slope. The system on the Spalinger, with a similar wing configuration works a treat, with the wings springing out and pulling back in again. Of course, the top of the open cockpit puts a spanner in the works, but I think if it was me I'd just paint it silver and hope the Scale Police aren't watching... ;)

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 18 Jan 2018, 10:47
by Tom Pack
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Vince.....this is what I have done in the past. Use a piece of aluminum flat stock that goes thru the fuselage and is secured in each wing with a nylon bolt from the underside of the wing.....in the wing you put two pieces of ply wood front and rear with a gap between them for the aluminum stock.....blind nut on the top side and bolt thru the bottom......that way the 2 wings are held to each other and not to the fuselage so the wing will never slide off unless you remove the bolts or “arrive” hard enough to break a bolt! The aluminum and easily be hidden with a few pieces of wood in the fuselage.

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 26 Aug 2018, 10:07
by VinceC
I thought I would bump this thread up a bit and show I am still alive. Because of the good summer, I enjoyed working outside on the model, but I am beginning to wonder why I took on this project as it has proved to be one of the most builder intensive models I have worked on. The end is in sight, but it keeps trying to get away from me. All the coverings are finished and the fuselage sprayed. Next up is the addition of the alluminium window surrounds, then on to the glazing and cockpit finishing, but still plenty of detail to do.

The more I work on the model, the greater respect I have for the designer for all the thought and clever techniques he put into the design. It is an incredible piece of work and almost impossible to make an exact model to his standards

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 26 Aug 2018, 10:59
by VinceC
On the back of the wing section on the fuselage you will see a 'metal' panel. To create the rivets I used a syringe filled with PVA glue, preferably aliphatic (yellow) in case you need to sand any bad ones off and re-apply. On the end of the syringe I added a nozzle from a bottle of instant glue for a narrow exit and with light pressure on the plunger added dots of glue.

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 26 Aug 2018, 12:38
by Barry_Cole
Maybe we need some Insanity Police........

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

BC

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 15 Sep 2018, 17:10
by VinceC
A long day screwing - no naughty thoughts guys

I fitted the top window and made and screwed down the alluminium retaining frames. The section around the wing root took a bit of working out, but finally got there. Now to repeat that on the other side.

The loop screws at the front of the canopy 'rear section' was yesterdays work

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 15 Sep 2018, 20:49
by B Sharp
You've still got "it" Vince. I'm not sure what "it" is but its still there.
Most impressive.
Brian. :)

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 15 Sep 2018, 22:02
by VinceC
It could be catching Brian, see your Doctor

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 15 Sep 2018, 22:38
by AJA
Looking good Vince.

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 18 Sep 2018, 18:57
by VinceC
Todays task was to complete the canopy frame. The front of the frame has to encircle the front instrument panel

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 26 Sep 2018, 16:45
by VinceC
Hinges for the frame made, frame secured, canopy added and fixed to the frame with 1.8mm self tapping screws through lithoplate (0.45mm alluminium) side frames, but still to be tidied up. I have used about 120 of these screws for all the glazing. At least the occupants can have a good look round

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 07 Oct 2018, 16:40
by VinceC
Whilst you were all on your knees at Church today, I finished the Struts. They are a composite build of Alluminium tube, Balsa and Carbon Fibre. My original idea was to glass them to get a smooth finish. but then decided to wrap 0.4mm ply around them and the results are very pleasing. Two options of finish are painting or vinyl wrap. I think I prefer the second.

I sprayed the wings white the other day, oh how I miss Solartex

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 20 Oct 2018, 15:57
by VinceC
Nearly finished. Just the odd few bits to complete. First up is the tail/fin fairing, built with a balsa core and covered with carbon fibre, then a wheel shroud from 1mm Aluminium cut on a fret saw.

Next up are two sliding vent windows to install

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 24 Oct 2018, 15:47
by VinceC
Look, No Prop, but it feels like a need a crane to lift it

After what seems an eternity, the Zephyrus is just about complete

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 24 Oct 2018, 16:35
by VinceC
It weighs in at 15.5 Kilos

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 25 Oct 2018, 17:15
by B Sharp
Very nice Vince, that really does look "the business".
However at 15.5kg I am not volunteering to launch it for you or carry it up the hill!
Brian. :D

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 25 Oct 2018, 18:42
by VinceC
I've got slaves for that Brian

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 26 Oct 2018, 15:12
by VinceC
Due to the overwhelming lack of interest, this thread will self destruct in 7 days time

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 26 Oct 2018, 15:38
by Barry_Cole
Vince,
Just because we are respectfully quiet, does not mean there is no interest.

Great model, well done, what's next??

8-) 8-) 8-) 8-)

BC

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 26 Oct 2018, 17:02
by Barry_Cole
Not only, but also:-

Don't forget when you first throw it off the cliff. Put your swimming trunks on first.

Good luck.

:D :D :D :D

BC

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 26 Oct 2018, 22:04
by VinceC
So not till next summer then?

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 02 Nov 2018, 08:22
by VinceC
.
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Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 02 Nov 2018, 12:14
by B Sharp
Explain please Vince?
Brian :o

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 02 Nov 2018, 15:03
by VinceC
Due to the overwhelming lack of interest, this thread will self destruct in 7 days time
I know you have commented Brian, but the build does not seem to have engendered interest with others. I wonder why I bothered

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 02 Nov 2018, 15:20
by Peter Balcombe
I’m sure that we are all watching with interest though Vince.
A lovely piece of work as usual & I look forward to hearing of a successful maiden flight in due course :)

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 02 Nov 2018, 16:06
by B Sharp
Thank goodness! I thought that you had done the maiden and royally stuffed it.
I (We) look forward to a full report on the maiden flight(s) in due course.
Brian. :)

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 03 Nov 2018, 21:16
by mode1blue
Here's the full size flying over my backyard, lovely looking glider on a sunny day. Sorry photos a bit fuzzy.

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 04 Nov 2018, 08:19
by VinceC
Thanks for the photos, they will help me to dream

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 05 Nov 2018, 08:27
by VinceC
The wing shape is a work of technical genius. Besides the shape pf the plan view, the wing leading edge rolls downwards towards the tip whilst the wing tip begins to bend upwards. Needless to say, I decided not to replicate this in the model (Scale Police please spare the Rod!!)

Here is a copy of that wings shape and the complicated main spar which had to be produced

Re: Zephyrus from down under

Posted: 05 Nov 2018, 10:55
by Barry_Cole
Cliff Evans wrote:
05 Nov 2018, 07:42
Full size Last Saturday at the Beaufort flying club in Australia.
Why do they have so many the same?????????????

8-) 8-) 8-) 8-)

BC