Cliff Charlesworth Olympia build in Bishop, CA.

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Greg Smith
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Cliff Charlesworth Olympia build in Bishop, CA.

Post by Greg Smith » 18 Mar 2016, 03:48

I thought I should start this when I'm asking about aspects of the build which still aren't clear to me, rather than carrying on in the new members' section. Hope this is OK.

So far, I have put down the keel pieces for my first fuse. half and glued the formers to the keel, except for those involved with the wing mounting, which is a bit of a puzzle. I will be more specific about this on my next post, and after I've learned how to post a picture...
It's clear, though, that since the laser cut was made from the plans, there are things wrong, and since I partly rely upon things going together accurately in order to understand them, this is unfortunate. In low moments, I think that if I'd known what the situation was with regard to this model I would never have invested in it, but would have gone for a Chris Williams design, since this is likely to be by far the most time-consuming project I've undertaken. Not the fault of the laser cutter, of course: though I'm finding the same inaccuracies mentioned in the other threads.

Still, I have the book, the plans and the other threads, so I trust I'll be able to muddle my way through!

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ian davis
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Location: Bishopstoke UK

Re: Cliff Charlesworth Olympia build in Bishop, CA.

Post by ian davis » 18 Mar 2016, 07:38

Greg

I have a Charlesworth Oly and it's my most flown glider for many years. Keep going. the reward will be worth the hassle.

With all the comments about accuracy of components I'm begining to wonder whether the original plan has lost something in translation either at the printing or scanning phase. Let us know where you problem areas are and I will check out my plan to try and understand what's going on.

Pic attachment is very straight forward. Click attachments down below and then add file. So much easier than it used to be.
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meise at wallop.jpg

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Peter Balcombe
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Re: Cliff Charlesworth Olympia build in Bishop, CA.

Post by Peter Balcombe » 18 Mar 2016, 09:29

Greg,
Have you found my Charlesworth Olympia build thread in the archived build threads section (page 3). Top up/missing photos are in the current build thread section under (Olympia update).
I have now built 2 of these models and as Ian says, there are plenty of others with Olys who can clarify most issues/queries you will come across.
It does go together ok, but there are a few areas where the plan could possibly be improved in hindsight.
Peter
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image.jpeg
Full size VV400
image.jpeg
Model maiden

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RobbieB
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Re: Cliff Charlesworth Olympia build in Bishop, CA.

Post by RobbieB » 18 Mar 2016, 09:33

Greg,

Stick with plan A - as Ian says, you will not be disappointed with the finished model.

There is an abundance of help and advice here on the forum to get you through some minor inaccuracies on the plan.

In all my years of model building from other peoples plans, including power (yes, we used to build power models in those days) I think the number of plans that didn't have mistakes on them could be counted on the fingers of one hand - and still have a few left over.

On the question of image posting, have a look at: http://scalesoaring.co.uk/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=6

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Cliff Evans
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Re: Cliff Charlesworth Olympia build in Bishop, CA.

Post by Cliff Evans » 18 Mar 2016, 09:41

As with all hand drawn plans of this type, there will always be discrepancies. The Olympia plan for example has no less than five formers missing on the original drawings, this has been rectified on the plans that I sell. When Cliff was told, he looked at his original plan and was horrified! Neither of us know how this had been missed over the years as this only came to light last year when a kit was purchased from another supplier who supplied the wrong formers. Over the two builds that have been done by Peter, we have identified a couple of other faults that have since been put right.

Greg Smith
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Re: Cliff Charlesworth Olympia build in Bishop, CA.

Post by Greg Smith » 21 Mar 2016, 20:09

Thanks for the most generous replies, everyone; I will definitely post some pictures.
First question: The cutouts in the formers for the keel are shorter than the plan dimension for the keel: something I should have checked, but I just threw down the keel on the plan before I knew any better, then attached the formers, as a first step in the build. Thus the keel protrudes beyong the former (by different amounts, and not because I didn't cut the keel pieces accurately). SO: should I
1) Try to build up each former to the edge of the keel piece or
2) Make the ply shell abut the keel at the top and bottom of the former and have the keel as part of the 'exterior' of the fuse, or
3) Try to cut the keel ON THE PLAN (ugh) to size, since the keel pieces are all attached?

I would think 2, probably? A stupid mistake, but I was thinking at the beginning that the plan must be correct...
I have built a lot from plans, and would make up discrepancies as I went along, but not from plan plus CNC parts. I think having those made me a bit less independent/wary/thinking ahead. Now I know!

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Cliff Evans
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Re: Cliff Charlesworth Olympia build in Bishop, CA.

Post by Cliff Evans » 21 Mar 2016, 20:13

Can I ask where you got your parts from Greg? And, can you put some photo's up showing the things you mention please.

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ian davis
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Re: Cliff Charlesworth Olympia build in Bishop, CA.

Post by ian davis » 22 Mar 2016, 08:32

Hi Greg

As Cliff says, we really need some pictures to fully understand your problem.

You say that the former/keel mismatch is different on every former, that would suggest that maybe the formers are in the wrong positions on the keel.

What happens when you put a straightedge along the formers at the main longeron position, say between the mainplane trailing edge to the tailplane?. It should be a straight line. ;)

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Peter Balcombe
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Re: Cliff Charlesworth Olympia build in Bishop, CA.

Post by Peter Balcombe » 22 Mar 2016, 09:08

Greg,
Sorry to hear of your difficulties with your kit, but having now very nearly completed my 2nd 1/4 scale Charlesworth Olympia 2b, I will offer a few comments/suggestions.
My two Olys have gone together pretty well from the plan and two kits of laser cut parts supplied by Cliff Evans.
As with any hand drawn plan, there were a few anomalies and areas of head scratching, but everything worked out in the end.
If you have generally built to a laser kit produced from a totally CAD designed & cut kit then you are likely to find that these have gone together better than if the kit was produced from a hand drawn plan such as a Charlesworth one.
Hand drawn plans are more likely to have small inaccuracies which can be compounded by printing dimensional variations and the 'tracing' process for conversion to a digitised plan where part lines can be misinterpreted/added/missed.

Thus as with cutting your own parts & building from a hand drawn plan, you need to continually check parts against the whole and be ready to adjust as required.
Having said that, apart from a few areas, I found the Olympia parts provided by Cliff to go together pretty well. Cutting issues found during my builds were fed back to Cliff & the cutting drawings amended for future use.

My building philosophy is always to build over the plan wherever possible, adjusting any parts as necessary to fit the plan, particularly the main structures as otherwise you are always likely to be back-pedalling and adjusting everything else downstream as a consequence.

Getting down to your particular issues, I suggest that if you have built the keel over the plan and the formers do not fit, then either the plan or the formers are not scaled correctly, or maybe the odd former has not been traced correctly, or as Ian has suggested, the formers have possibly been fitted in the wrong order.
As a fuselage plan sheet dimensional accuracy check, former F9 should be 272mm high & 75.5mm wide. The tailplane span should be 720mm tip to tip & the distance from the front of former F1 to the front of F16 should be 943mm. (Sorry for metric, but better resolution than imperial measurement!)
If your measured equivalent dimensions are smaller than the above, then this could explain some of the problem.
If you have only started the first (left) fuselage side than I suggest you check the size of the unused (right side) formers over the templates shown on the plan to check for size.
If the former parts are the same size as the plan templates then everything should fit, otherwise you should be able to identify whether plan or the/some parts are out.

I would recommend that you first identify the cause of the fit problem, then if the formers are wrong, carefully remove the offending items by slitting the glue joint with a razor saw, revise the part and replace. If the plan scale is in error, then I suggest that you need to remove all items and start again with an accurately scaled plan, despite all the agro as you will always be chasing your tail because nothing will fit.
I strongly suggest you check the wing ribs against your wing plan templates before starting the wings in case you have any discrepancies there as well.

Hopefully, the issues are not serious & you can quickly identify the cause of the problem & move on quickly as the Olympia is a lovely model to build and fly.
By the way, have you looked at my original Charlesworth Olympia build thread (one of the earliest threads in the archive build thread section). The 1st photo shows the left side fuselage structure, albeit with keel infill strips in place. However, you will hopefully be able to make out that the formers all go to the outside edges of the keel.
Peter

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Cliff Evans
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Re: Cliff Charlesworth Olympia build in Bishop, CA.

Post by Cliff Evans » 22 Mar 2016, 09:26

My concern is that the original plan is still being used buy kit cutters. I know that when the fault was discovered with the plan, it was discovered by one of our members (Charles Morgan) when he received a kit for the Olympia from one of our major Kit Cutters. I cut and sent replacement formers, I also sent the cad files to the Kit Cutter so that this did not happen again, never even had a response from them! So this is why I ask where the kit came from.
Below is an image from the plan showing what was used for cutting formers from to supply this kit. Being an agent for Cliff Charlesworth, I need to get this and any other of his plans right. If anybody is considering buying one of these kits, please question whether or not these formers are correct, If in any doubt please refer to me.

Cliff
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Olympia.jpg

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