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Sustainers - Yes or NO!

Here is where you can discuss to your hearts content the merits of sustainers.
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chris williams
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Joined: 10 Mar 2015, 10:50
Location: Blandford Dorset

Re: Sustainers - Yes or NO!

Post by chris williams »

Two things of note at White Sheet yesterday...
First, that well known old purist Pat Teakle flew an E-Assist K18, and then asked if we could run an event for such models at White Sheet next year! Secondly, poor 'ol Ray Watts became the only one to land out, if decorating the top of a tree could ever be called landing out. Our intrepid chairman went all the way home and back to fetch his climbing gear (his other hobby) and retrieved the model for Ray. Obviously, a moustache in this instance would have saved an awful lot of hassle...

It does trouble me a little that those that oppose E-Assist seem to be the ones that have never tried it :?:
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Ray Watts
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Joined: 18 Mar 2015, 06:31
Location: Basingstoke

Re: Sustainers - Yes or NO!

Post by Ray Watts »

This was another incident like my foray last year at the Mynd.

This time there was nobody really willing to give it a go with a non e-assist glider of any size, but I had flown my electric Thermic dream and found a lot of thermals so I prepped my 24 and waited for a thermal to pass through and launched. Initially I was at half hill height immediately from launch, but flying to the end of the hill, it came back up to my level. A couple of passes and then it hooked a thermal. This resulted in a climb to 1000 feet above launch. There followed a 40 minute flight using thermals which were in abundance and a good time was had. But then all of a sudden nothing and it came down about 200 feet a minute and it was game over. Unfortunately (or lack of skill on my part) whilst watching the shadow over the field at the bottom, I stalled the model at the wrong time and place and it sat itself in the top of the highest tree. E-assist would have prevented a whole lot of effort that followed the incident, and my feeling the need for oxygen after walking up and down the hill a couple of times. Many thanks though to the White Sheet chairman and his mate for recovering it which took about an hour and a half.

The 24 nose is coming off now.

Ray
It's always calmer indoors :D

John Vella
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Joined: 20 Mar 2017, 22:09
Location: UK

Re: Sustainers - Yes or NO!

Post by John Vella »

chris williams wrote:
23 Jul 2018, 00:22


It does trouble me a little that those that oppose E-Assist seem to be the ones that have never tried it :?:
Chris we had the same attitude about turbos on full size gliders to start with. "It can't be a proper glider because it has an engine". Now with the lack of crews and the risk of land out views have changed. The same will happen with modelling . From a comp perspective penalise a K factor for the prop and if used the flight is void, and with full size once the engine is started a land out is recorded.
Regards John.

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chris williams
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Joined: 10 Mar 2015, 10:50
Location: Blandford Dorset

Re: Sustainers - Yes or NO!

Post by chris williams »

A quick note about scale competitions. I cut my teeth on the White Sheet competitions, now but a distant memory. Why have they disappeared?
Consider the infrastructure required:
1: Static Judge: A knowledgeable person, happy to spend most of the day poring over three view and photos, and amiable enough to put up with the inevitable back-biting from contestants who feel they have been unfairly judged
Turnpoint 1 Judge: Able to sit on his own for entire day and watch other people fly
Turnpoint 2 Judge: Ditto
Turnpoint 3 judge: Ditto
Landing Judge: Ditto, although slightly more entertaining
Competition Director: Needs a skin as thick as elephant hide

Now, imagine rounding up all these volunteers, making them cancel whatever else they might be doing that day, and then telling them on the day that it's all off because the wind isn't cooperating. (And then repeating it four times in a row!) It's a wonder we held any competitions at all!

Today we have fly-Ins: practically no organisation, no volunteers required, and as amiable a bunch of non-competitive souls you could ever hope to find in a month of Sundays. Unlike the F3effers, we don't close the hill to other club fliers and (at least up until now) we all get along peaceably.

As far as I know, there is no formal scale aerotow competition in the UK

Therefore the inclusion, or otherwise, of a moustache on a model, should not be regarded in relation to formal competitions, as such things have to all intents and purposes died out...

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Barry_Cole
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Location: Hampshire UK

Re: Sustainers - Yes or NO!

Post by Barry_Cole »

We did hold a couple of scale aerotow events at Lasham, (My first towing duty) and MW in the early days. They basically died out for many of the reasons that Chis outlined previously, and that pilots did not want to travel for miles, and spend all day having maybe two flights, three if you were lucky. So the format changed to the fly in format that we have now.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

BC

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Martynk
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Location: Haslington
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Re: Sustainers - Yes or NO!

Post by Martynk »

Personally, I don't care either way. I would never dictate to anyone how they should enjoy their hobby/pastime/sport but I do think it looks odd when I see a scale glider that clearly never had a whirly bit fitted with one.

Perhaps we should all build RF-4s or similar for marginal conditions.

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Andrew Ray
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Joined: 19 Mar 2015, 19:15
Location: Staffordshire

Re: Sustainers - Yes or NO!

Post by Andrew Ray »

Scale Police wrote:
19 Jul 2018, 22:46
Andrew Ray wrote:
19 Jul 2018, 20:07
I am amazed that this even warrants a discussion. Theoretically any full size glider could be retrofitted with a FES and thus be scale, if it is a scale comp where documentation is required then a model so fitted (if the full size was not) would not be scale.

It really all depends how many rivets you want to count and for that look at the plastic scale model forums, some really get upset over the accuracy or not of various models, pistols at dawn scenario.

Personally if it helps me fly a scale glider solo then great (and isn't that what it is all about?), it is a compromise I am prepared to take, it opens up a whole load of places to fly from so it's a YES from me and the Scale Police needs to move with the times ;)

Hope I haven't offended anybody, not my intention.
We were only responding to a request for this subject! If a full size glider is retro fitted with a sustainer then fine, but if a model is based on a glider with no such device but fitted with said sustainer then, not fine in the eyes of the law!
Oops, not a hanging offence yet then :lol:

A late reply as I have been crewing for a mate at the Bicester Regionals, I wouldn’t want to get on the wrong side of the law officer.

MarkDev
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Joined: 19 Mar 2015, 10:41
Location: Dorset

Re: Sustainers - Yes or NO!

Post by MarkDev »

A pennyworth here. E assist equals more flying time. Only mistake I made was not to make it rog but tow first.

Elliot Howells
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Re: Sustainers - Yes or NO!

Post by Elliot Howells »

A few weekends ago, I spent time and money travelling to our local westerly slope on the promise from the met office of a half decent blow.
On arrival and rigging, I discover the 9mph is probably more like 5-6 and my discus being a little heavy would very likely struggle. I waited for half an hour then bottled it, packed up and went home. If i had taken my little ASW28 with motor in the nose, I could have had a couple of hours of gliding time, safe in the knowledge that if the wind was a bit tricksy, then my well loved model could be saved from the rocks and ocean below.

Every model I own, scale or not will be getting a motor if it's viable, technology has saved our already 'niche of a niche' hobby from the abyss as far as I'm concerned.

I realise this discussion centres on the scale nature of the hobby and that's why we're all members of scale soaring, but I do think that the ability to fly pretty much anywhere with added safety must have a great bearing on the promotion and hopefully expansion of this side of model aeronautics.

I am able to fly scale gliders pretty much any decent day now, in the field over the road, I don't need a bungee (not terribly scale) just a pocket full of lipos and the absence of enquiring cows; it's really put some pep back into my aeromodelling.

I've just ordered a scale profile spinner from Schambeck to adapt my Let Ash26 (1/3 scale) which will be very scale once I've found a real one with a FES on t'internet ;)

As an aside, do the scale police take issue with say a 1/4 scale tug pulling up a 1/3 scale glider?

Ell.

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Barry_Cole
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Location: Hampshire UK

Re: Sustainers - Yes or NO!

Post by Barry_Cole »

Anyone (Scale police included) who complains about any sort of tug pulling up a scale glider, should be banned from all aerotows.

Tugs of any sort are expensive to run, and need constant maintenance to keep them flight ready.

For scale tugs apply a factor of 10 or more.

Just be pleased that there are people out there who are happy to provide and fly the tugs.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

BC

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