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Sustainers - Yes or NO!

Here is where you can discuss to your hearts content the merits of sustainers.
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VinceC
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Re: Sustainers - Yes or NO!

Post by VinceC »

I am so pleased you asked this question in view of the Mynd discussion. I was about to start a thread on this subject myself and surprisingly, at the same time, Chris Williams produced a detailed article in the current version of RCSD.

My thoughts are that sustainers are fine for other forms of model gliding, but when a full size glider never had a sustainer, then there is no reason to add one to your model and then call it a scale model.Gliding is all about testing your skills by use of wind and thermal energy and if a full size pilot reckons the conditions don't exist, then he doesn't fly and that applies to us. No cheating. If you want to fly in poor conditions, build something different

Just because you can doesn't mean you should

simon_t
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Re: Sustainers - Yes or NO!

Post by simon_t »

I don’t want to fly a scale model glider with a non-scale motor. But many of us do not have access to a slope that is suitable for scale flying, and the nearest tug and suitable flying field is over two hours away. So I can understand why some folks, who want to enjoy flying a large scale glider, would use a small electric motor in the nose which cannot be seen in flight. It is just an alternative method of launching, and for some just that ability to enable flying more than outweighs the loss of scale fidelity. How many scale models are REALLY scale anyway? Many ‘purists’ on this forum use modern wing sections or have enlargened tailplanes to make their vintage gliders fly better - now that might be a matter for the scale police :)

Simon

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Simon WS
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Re: Sustainers - Yes or NO!

Post by Simon WS »

Whilst I would rather only have a sustainer on a scale glider that had one on the full size I'm not so hung up on it if people want to put a prop on one that only (say) had an up and go (or didn't have one at all come to that). I agree that part of the fun of slope soaring is to test your skills when the slope lift or thermals vanish but I definitely test and hone my own skills if I have a prop on something as I can/will hang on to the last possible moment looking for lift before (sometimes) turning the motor on. If I didn't have a prop I would probably never even have launched and so there would be no skill development.

Anyway with the new CAA rules about max flying height of 400ft FROM GROUND LEVEL (not from launch point as previously understood) props on gliders are the least of our problems for slope soaring!!
Our modest local slope is apparently 163m high so if we fly away from the slope we'd have to land or try and estimate what height above the slope (but below launch point) we were flying at INSANE. Lord knows how high the Long Mynd is.....

Simon
Last edited by Simon WS on 19 Jul 2018, 13:11, edited 1 time in total.

roo Hawkins
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Re: Sustainers - Yes or NO!

Post by roo Hawkins »

The answer to this question is yes and no for me. I like a glider to be a glider but I think substaners and fes is right for some. Especially when no tow plane or some sites that need it. I myself am converting my vega to fes but making a dummy nose to make it back to a glider. So with out spoiling the lines of the vega. I have to travel along way to get to a slope so this can be flying at my local flat club.
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VinceC
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Re: Sustainers - Yes or NO!

Post by VinceC »

Should they be used at a Scale Event?

roo Hawkins
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Re: Sustainers - Yes or NO!

Post by roo Hawkins »

I still want it to be scale that is why I did the dummy nose. It will be flown in that way most of the time. .when the red tape is around the join you will not know.

roo Hawkins
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Re: Sustainers - Yes or NO!

Post by roo Hawkins »

I still want it to be scale that is why I did the dummy nose. It will be flown in that way most of the time. .when the red tape is around the join you will not know. So still scale

roo Hawkins
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Re: Sustainers - Yes or NO!

Post by roo Hawkins »

I still want it to be scale that is why I did the dummy nose. It will be flown in that way most of the time. .when the red tape is around the join you will not know. So still scale
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simon_t
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Re: Sustainers - Yes or NO!

Post by simon_t »

VinceC wrote:
19 Jul 2018, 13:54
Should they be used at a Scale Event?
Absolutely - model flying and scale gliders is gradually dying out - we can’t afford to lose people from events because OUR view is that a motor is illegal! Live and let live I say. Let everyone enjoy themselves in their own way , because launching with that motor doesn’t stop anyone else flying, it is not a safety issue (any more than tugs with propellers), and above 50’ you can’t see the prop.

As Simon W-S has said, it’s not my thing (today) but I could see a time when Aerotow events don’t get enough takers and die out, so my only flight options might be FES.

Simon

Ps - most tugs at Aerotow events have NO scale credentials. I like to see scale tugs pulling scale gliders. Should we ban those tugs?

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terry white
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Re: Sustainers - Yes or NO!

Post by terry white »

Simon -t said it in one.
Live and let live. I don't look at old timer models with old timer pilots and say "hey the airfoil section is wrong, Hang on there that's not the correct wing cord at the tips,why did you decide to change the colour from that of the full size" and that you should now not be allowed to fly in an event. SO. HOW DARE THEY SAY THAT I CANT BECAUSE OF MY CHOICES.

Live and let Die. Take a look at any supplier of beginners models these days,whether it be Hobby- king, Ebay, Gliders etc and you will find that most models sold as gliders will come with a sustainer on the front. Why. because the very few new modelers coming into the hobby aren't at all interested in pure flight. The wonder of a heavier than air aircraft flying unaided in the sky has gone.Died with the last generation,Its Deader than tank tops. The youngsters are now so used to seeing aircraft on telly and YouTube with next to no wings doing mach 3, and military drones bombing Syria, controlled from thousands of miles away back in America that stoodling about close to a stall trying to preserve height leaves them less than cold. (and quite frankly has me for some while). The modern youngsters view may come as a surprise to some people but guys get used to it,that's a fact. The suppliers know this and to sell a model to a beginner at all ,will require it to have the means to get air born without necessarily the need of a slope. When youngster's come to us on our slopes with such a model (and they do)l we welcome them with open arms and get them flying and hopefully hooked for life. Would you, on your slope, or would you say *cant fly that here son its banned"!! That this should happen on any slope in Britain is utterly ridicules in this day and age and makes me feel ashamed.

With the full size now sporting sustainers and many of us model gliders modelling them the younger generation will come to recognize and except motors on gliders as the norm.

Like most things commerce drives the world forward. If it should want to sell models with motors up front, then motors will win out no matter who or what stands in its way.. Just a matter of time until it comes to you.

I still feel that to a great extent it is up to the land owner's what is and isn't banned on their land.For an instance we have three clubs all using the same slope's for their enjoyment. Thankfully all embrace sustainers so a conflict does not exist but if it did the land owner would have a say. Likewise if a member of the public was to complain about any dangerous activity going on on their land and the landowners agreed they could ban all further activity possibly under the dreadful Alf and safety banner.
So the landowner does have a say. Ter.

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