Scale Soaring UK

Hi Cliff,
I am a long time user of CAD programs at work. I have used autocad light to design models previously, but my job does not require this now, and I am not going to buy a full Autodesk product as it is far too expensive. So I have been considering Devcad.
I have a few questions please Cliff:
Is it fully 3d and loftable?
Can it intergrate with sophisticated wing programs such as Profili?
As an Autocad Light user how familiar will it be? will i natutrally find my way around or will I have to learn all over again?
Regards,

John

Hiya cliff,
Iv been considering having a stab at devcad iv got to purchase a new laptop as my old one isn't up to par and iv currently only got the use of my ipad.
I'm a complete novice when it comes to cad so would you recomend devcad cliff? And what exactly should I purchase ? Does devcad offer wing section choice? Do I need DEV fuz and dev wing?
I don't want to get bogged down with software and not actually build something from it but I do fancy having a bash at doing my own thing next year.
I have a project in mind I'd like to discuss with you soon so ill give you a ring over the next week or so.

Chris

Cheers cliff
I see your burning the midnight oil again! I'm sold on the devcad and will look at investing later this year as iv some glider building to catch up with if I'm going to be active this summer,,,,plus im finally going to tackle organising my workshop/dumping ground over the next couple of weeks.

I don't recommend DevFus at all for scale gliders. I bought it, tried it and it was impossible to create the outline I needed

Chris

Like Vince I had trouble using Devfuz. I tried it because it seemed so appealing, particularly the 3D rendering.

I've used Turbocad for many years and found it easy to learn and very cheap to buy. You can get a very useable version for about £8 from Maplins.

A trick that took a long time to dawn on me is that you can scan a 3view and import into your CAD system and then scale to the required size. This means that you have the outline of the fuselage without any individual measurements. All that remains is to trace the outline and create the internal structure.

Add this to Profili for your wing rib plotting and you've got everything you need to create the model of your dreams.

Ian

Ian,
Many thanks,
I have just picked up a copy of TurboCAD 18 Deluxe 2D/3D at Maplins for £7.99.
Now for the learning curve!!
Peter

Peter

It's pretty intuitive, but if you need guidance just ask.

Ian

Thanks Ian,
I have had a look at the first 10 video tutorials on the DVD & they seem to take things slowly & thoroughly so far.

Hi Peter

Most tutorials take you to places you don't need to go. The basics of orthogonal lines. normal lines and multiple lines offset from the first by a known distance more or less covers that. The only useful addition is a line perpendicular to the first.

Circles and ellipses are straightforward.

Local snaps can be found on the right click of your mouse and allows all the options for joining lines to circles or ellipses.

I always set the drawing scale to 1:1 and if you import a scanned three view it can be resized keeping the aspect ratio. To do this just decide, for instance the overall length, draw a horizontal line of the appropriate length then stretch the three view to suit.

Because I have limited printing facilities I don't generate full plans. All I'm after for a fuselage, for instance, are the former shapes and their position along the structure. Even these sometimes involve some cutting and sticking of A4 sheets if the model is large.

I almost forgot. To print, copy the whole drawing from model space to paper space. Select the whole drawing then move the part you want to print over the page outline.

The building process involves choosing or creating a horizontal datum longeron and then setting it up in my trusty jig with the former positions defined by a cross brace. The jig is created for each model but the timber can be reused many times. The pic shows my J71 seaplane glider in the jig. It's worth noting that the jig allows most of the planking of the fuse to be carried out before removal and even allows the decalage to be checked

Add this to Profili for your wing rib plotting and you've got everything you need to create the model of your dreams.

Couldn't resist this one in response. (Taken from an issue of "The White Sheet)

Thanks every one for the guidance I'm not the most pc orientated person so whichever I try will be a steep learning curve, I'm torn between the maplins turbocad for dipping my toe in and devcad but have to confess the model orientated dev products does appeal to me also as the model terminology used may help?
I have a lot of catching up to do to get models flyable for this season and my winter builds from last year have rolled into next year already! But I would still like to dabble with doing it myself and learning a new skill (as long as it doesn't get in the way of all my build projects!)

Chris

Well I have gone and got that turbocad from Maplins and it's installed and working in no time ! All I have to do is work at understanding it all now !! Although I must say what little I have learned so far (just a few hours messing about) has been really interesting!
A steep learning curve I'm sure but a rewarding challenge (I hope)

All I ned now is a converter from pdf to DWG so I can import 3views to mess about with and ruin haha,,,,anyone know what to use??

Chris

You can convert vector .pdf to .dwg in Illustrator. Be aware that some .pdfs are just standard .jpg images or similar and will only return an image. I have used that method on the free plans so that the vector work, which can be stripped from the .pdf cannot be used (and has been) by unscrupulous kit suppliers.

If you want any conversions, I can do them for you

Vince

Thanks Cliff,,,Vince,,,,
I'm far away from truly importing anything serious to fiddle with and still struggling with the terminology of it all !!! But the rain stops play days will be filled with me asking you chaps lots of stupid questions I'm sure!
I was going to just mess with some simple 3views and see what happens but I think I need to structure my learning curve and "learn" instead of just making shapes and not knowing exactly how I did it! .
I do have a future project iv always fancied but as that's a flying wing I'd probably be better to invest in profilli for that one ! (Keeping that project under wraps for know though) .
One quick question though,,,,should I set up a template and only use metric units now our beloved balsa is sized that way and wing tubes and fittings etc it seems "sensible" to stay metric ? ,iv not learned how to set templates and it's still on inches currently but iv only had it installed since yesterday.
Chris.

Always work in Metric. Even Fred Slingsby did that

Well I didn't know fred slingsby worked in metric! (Always learning something in this hobby)
Good to get things set up from the start in the correct way so thanks chaps,,,,,,Cliff cheers in advance for sending me some info once iv got it I'll set it up..

Chris

I've just caught up with this thread, I'm in Belgium at the moment but will be back in the UK shortly. You mention the issue of converting three views, there is no need.

If you have a scanner then just scan the image which will appear somewhere in your documents. This can be imported directly in to Turbocad and resized to your requirements . Once done you simply trace the outline and start designing the structure. When I get home I will post some examples.

Ian

Thanks Ian,
I did read somewhere about that but I thought perhaps I'd misunderstood as it seems so simple!
When you get back any help would be very appreciated (ps may be in hospital for a day or two from tomorrow so may not be about for a bit)

Chris

Chris

It's so simple it took me some years to figure it out.

Before then it was a case of blowing the 3 view up to A3 and then measuring every element with a vernier.


Ian

Ian,
I hope that you are coming back loaded with Belgium Chocolates, They will go down well at MW.

Tony

After getting the cheap copy of TurboCad from Maplins, but not getting too far with it, I decided to bite the bullet and get a copy of DevCad Pro.
With a little help from Cliff Evans, I have got stuck into this fairly quickly and have found it easy to import a 3 view as a background image which can then be traced into a CAD drawing and scaled to the required size.
Using some 3 views of the SZD45A Ogar I found on the forum as a starter, I have traced & scaled these up to full size and am now having a go at producing a 1/4 scale wing build plan after using Profilli to draft out a basic wing plan to the same size and plot all the rib profiles along the wing complete with main spars, sheeting etc.
A point to note with Profilli is that you need to make sure you have a version which is capable of exporting a DXF/DWG file rather than just printing hard copy. My old XT version can't export, so I had to find a helpful soul to do the conversion for me from the Profilli panel design file. Once you have converted the Profilli output to DXF format then it is easy to copy the ribs into the wing drawing/add detailed tweaks etc.
I suspect that DevWing may be easier to interface with DevCAd etc. than my old version of Profilli, but I will stick with what I have for the present.
Cliff reckons that TurboCad, DevCad & Autocad are all similar but have subtle differences in usage, but once you learn on one, it shouldn't be too difficult to use one of the others.

Hi peter
Well it seems your doing much better than Me!!
Although I have to admit at not currently throwing much time into playing with my turbocad right now (rebuilding,insulating,electrifying shed/ hobby space finally) I do intend to sit and mess with TC as soon as summer is over and iv caught up with some projects and managed to get flying again.
So I'm sure I will have plenty of daft questions later in the year for you all,,,so bare with me as my CAD status is on hold!

Chris.

I have just tried out DevWing and it seems to be relatively easy to produce a sample ribbed wing design complete with false L/E & T/E spars plus commercial airbrake mounting sub-Spurs and phantom airbrake space. The 3D views confirm that what you have is what you expected. Not able to print or export in the trial environment but will probably wait for the next full version to come out soon before buyiny the full version.
DevCad3 works well and I have managed to tidy up a Compufoil wing plan import into a basis for a Milan wing build plan, plus have tidied up the rib templates into cutting templates.
The Milan 1/4 scale build is next on my list (after the current Olympia build).